No. Not everything can be excused as a joke. That is part of the current problems. You can't say whatever you want or do whatever you want and then just say...oh my goodness.....it was just a joke.
I can think of many "signs" or symbols that might do the same and many of them are not things we want to see in our society.....or not things we wanted to see in our society. As I said........sad and scary that some will see this as ok.
Look I'm not a violent person and I don't have any of those guns but that was intended as a joke. There are too many oversensitive people making themselves that way by listening to themselves and like minded others.
I always thought most of us, educated in the US and have a certain amount of common sense, thought like I did. Almost 3 yrs. ago, I learned that a large percentage of people do not think like I do. Now, to not be horribly depressed over it, I have to learn to accept it.
Certainly that sticker is meant to express an opinion and provoke a reaction. So I assume the owner of that car is pro ownership of any type of gun. IMO automatic assault weapons should not be available for purchase. I think anyone buying a gun should be background checked before being able to buy. I do think it’s hard to stop a maniac from committing mass murder but why do we have to make it easier for them to access an automatic weapon. Anyway if that sticker was meant as a joke it failed with me.i do think that sticker is useful in that maybe it can get people to debate the pros and cons of gun ownership. That’s a big debate worth having.
and just got the fun of it... this sticker made me think about the legality of things that can harm us.
should guns be legal?
should cigarettes be legal?
Should ecigs be legal?
should alcohol be legal?
Should be a good and potentially a very heated debate.
I for one will not be smoking or vaping while this debate goes on.
OK! I will bite! I like a good debate as much as anyone! Maybe a little bit more! So I will respond to exvape’s comment!
1. Automatic weapons are illegal! They have been for a very long time! Some people know how to convert a gun to automatic. Bump Stocks are one way to do that! Many, including the NRA have campaigned to make bump stocks illegal! The last time that was voted on( during the Obama administration) the bill failed! Some think because the NRA supported it! So, new laws on automatic rifles are useless! That which you can not enforce, you can not command!
2. A ban on assault weapons, would need to
start with cutting off everyone’s hands! A large majority of assaults are committed by hand! In this case the word assault has been hijacked to make guns of a certain shape and size sound worse! By strict definition any weapon is an assault weapon! I doubt if anyone who has had a large caliber bullet split their brain has cared whether the gun was automatic, semi-automatic, or a single shot musket!
3. People who were raised to respect other people did not go on shooting sprees! Those who did bad things were punished and others were discouraged by knowing that there were real consequences for their actions. In my case I am pretty sure I there are some people who are still alive for no better reason than the fact that I did not want to spend eternity in hell! Now days many people don’t even believe there is a hell! I yield the remainder of my time to the next member!
Totally disagree. More background checks, selling guns at gun fairs to anyone, etc. I actually think many of these mass shooting are committed by mentally ill people-consequences don't mean anything. Politicians don't want to offend the NRA--contribute too much to their campaigns. There is an issue whether it's a single bullet or automatic weapon--the difference is I can kill 50 people in seconds.
The bottom line to me is that "something"needs to be done. So lets TRY!!!! Oh, and I don't believe in hell. My behavior isn't based on fear--it's based on love.
There are laws against selling automatic weapons anywhere! But until there are serious consequences and a way to enforce those laws, they are just words! “We need to do something” is a very popular answer! But until we know what to do and the consequent of those actions we may do something that makes the situation worse! For example: Australia made a law a few years ago that everyone must sell their guns back to the government! Law abiding citizens did! Guess who did not? Since the buy back all violent crime is up including murder! Home invasions are up 44%!
As far as mass shootings being committed by mentally ill, perhaps if their had been real consequences to their previous actions they would not been in a position to commit these crimes!
If a person believes in hell does not really matter! Most people dislike consequences! Barbscloud, I am glad you do not base your behavior on fear! I am even more happy that your behavior is based on love! However, until everyone else takes that attitude, I am going to hang on to my all my forms of self protection!
start with cutting off everyone’s hands! A large majority of assaults are committed by hand! In this case the word assault has been hijacked to make guns of a certain shape and size sound worse! By strict definition any weapon is an assault weapon! I doubt if anyone who has had a large caliber bullet split their brain has cared whether the gun was automatic, semi-automatic, or a single shot musket!
You can say strict definition but this is a very bad comparison. You are only talking about ONE person
You can only kill one person with your hands at one time.
Assault weapons kill multiple individuals in a matter of seconds.
a single musket With practice, a person could fire up to 8 rounds per minute.
Although restrictions do exist on buying, selling, and owning fully automatic weapons — also commonly referred to as machine guns — these firearms are technically still legal. Some advocates of gun rights, however, have claimed the opposite in arguments.
“We of course don’t want to have automatic weapons, and that’s already illegal in this country to have automatic weapons,” Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney said in a 2012 debate.
That claim wasn’t accurate then, nor is it true now.
The Hughes Amendment, passed in 1986, prohibited the manufacture of any new machine guns from then on. However, automatic guns owned before then are legal as long as they’re registered and approved by the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
Gun advocates have argued that even those restrictions make automatic weapons “illegal.” But around a half million machine weapons still exist as of February 2016, according to the federal ATF registry. Additionally, a federal law banning certain semi-automatic guns and “large capacity” ammunition magazines was signed in 1994 under President Bill Clinton. But this Federal Assault Weapons Ban expired back in 2004 and has yet to be reinstated.
And all of the above is just by way of CLARIFYING the claim that automatic weapons are already illegal.
However......the bottom line for me is this.............yes, the "something that can be done" will not solve the entire problem. People will still be killed by guns. However, the stance that because it won't solve the WHOLE problem....then, it's useless is......well, let's just say ridiculous. It is like sayings that all of the strides we have made in cancer research have not eliminated cancer......so, let's not use any of the treatments since.....what the heck.....there will still be cancer. NO! Let's do whatever we can....whatever measures we can come up with to keep even one person alive. If you are the one person....or your child, husband, wife, friend is the one person......I am sure then it will seem worth it.
Thanks for sharing Barb - it didn't surprise YOU did it - It is 2019 in America - SOME Americans CHOOSE of their OWN free will to carry guns on their person's with a legal gun liscence of course and in their cars with a legal permit of course and to have guns - of ALL kinds in their OWN personal home's with ALL registered guns and permits and licenses of course and SOME Americans - did choose to kicked GOD out of EVERYTHING - self will runs wild in 2019 - shootings in Chicago - didn't STOP after spike lee made a movie - trying to WAKE AMERICA UP - the recent news reports said - some gang members - who shot an 8 year boy in the head - last YEAR- arrested were - 3 gang members - for the murder are just NOW getting sentenced - last week in Chicago courts - shootings INCREASED - and this is NOTHING - to what is ahead for America in ALL cities - CHOOSING to kick GOD out of EVERYTHING - NEWS reported YEARS ago - some BELIEVERS in Christ Jesus - who own cake businesses and stated that they do BELIEVE - in marriage between a man and a women - their personal belief in God's Holy Word and will NOT bake a wedding cake for same sex couples - they got arrested and went bankrupt - there is no freedom to BELIEVE God's word and to LIVE FREE in America 2019 in SOME cities - TODAY - these Christ Jesus believers were put in jail by our government and our schools are all screwed up over - how many bathrooms to build for who in ALL schools - IF you say - YOUR a believer in God's Holy Word and have a boy's bathroom and a girl's bathroom in school - your school will be told by the United States government to build the bathrooms for ALL sexes or you will be fined or jailed or school closings - SOME of the churches in America in 2019 -TODAY - preach on the lastest - AUTHOR OF NEW AGE BOOKS and NOT God's Holy Bible - these churches don't want to offend anyine with the BIBLE in a church - the list of consequences - for standing up for YOUR belief in God in America in 2019 goes on with NEWS of church shootings - soon it will return to the wild wild west days - and it won't be NATIVE Americans fighting CUSTER this time - its Americans fighting - each other in 2019 - do not be deceived - this is just the beginning - just for TODAY - NEVER TAKE ANOTHER PUFF EVER - welcome to America land of - self will run riot - please take what HELPS and let go of the rest - to be HELPFUL is MY only aim - thank you - just REMEMBER the SUGGESTIONS - give to us ALL here - MY beloved Barb - N.O.P.E- NOT ONE PUFF EVER - no matter what. - YOU see on the window of any motor vehicle - that's life in OUR America - without God - CONSEQUENCES - choices - choices - choices - NO GOD - NO PEACE- gentle hug
I apologize for using the Australia stats! Stats can be manipulated to say whatever the one paying for them wants to say! I should not have fallen for that!
A lot of people continue to refer to certain guns as assault weapons! Hands are still assault weapons! They are no less deadly than the guns! The point seems to be finding an acceptable level of kills per minute!
Also worth considering. A person trying to kill a maximum number of people is foolish to use an automatic weapon! When a gun fires continually the barrel rides up and waste a large percentage of the ammunition! Firing single well aimed shots is much more efficient!
Sootie the idea of trying anything to save a cancer patient works if the patient was gonna die anyway! And if it does not work, we at least learn from it! That is helpful in the goal of eliminating cancer! I am not sure that applies here because the goal is not eliminating guns! Is it?
At any rate we have only to look to Chicago to
see how much good the tightest gun restrictions in the country are doing!
When a gun fires continually the barrel rides up and waste a large percentage of the ammunition! Firing single well aimed shots is much more efficient!
That would be great if you are sitting in a whole undercover waiting for someone to walk by. But if you walk into a room of a lot of people you just want to spray bullets everywhere, As many bullets as possible not having to point or aim and shoot but just fire and shoot.
First and foremost I am enjoying this debate without smoking or vaping....I used to think vaping would help me concentrate...I believe that is malarkey!
so on the matter of guns. I just think they should be very hard to purchase - background checks....”gun education” similar to drivers ed...followed by a gun test —-similar to a road test.
i don’t know if would solve the problem but hopefully it would save lives.
i do think automatic weapons and anything that converts a weapon into something automatic should be illegal.
nonetheless I do think banning guns will result in a black market. Same with prohibiting cigarettes, pot, or booze—-making items that people want will create a black market.
so best to be legal with major regulations....one of my regulations would be NO automatic weapons for everyday people.
-it should be hard as heck to purchase a gun...but then again the vast majority of people who own guns are not running committing murder.
i don’t know what the answer is.. perhaps wearing a bulletproof vest and a helmet.
The good news is that this debate without end is taking place amongst people committed to abstaining from nicotine. If we can eliminate the desire to smoke we will be saving millions of lives starting with our own.
Totally disagree with “Red Flags”! You red flag your ex, or someone here on EX, and they have their rights taken away with no evidence presented and no chance to defend themselves? No one should have the power to do that to someone else! And even if a person is later proven innocent, where do they go to get their good name back??
This is an example of what I said earlier about the “we must do something” attitude! When we do something without totally thinking it through, the devil invariably emerges from the details!
No not at all, ijs with all the violence that's going on been going on, promoting guns is not needed especially in that sense, not trying to step on no ones toes here but we all have opinions here don't have to like a small gun gradually becoming a big gun like that pic was doing that's all
Not red flagging no one personally, what is the purpose of displaying your family of guns, you have took what I was saying out of context I'm through with it
Hello everyone. This is definitely a controversial topic and certainly it could be so for someone who has been affected by gun violence first hand. I know Barbscloud didn't mean to trigger anyone by bringing up this topic and people can interpret things in different ways, that's why we're all unique.
I for one love a variety of opinions shared here on EX as it is a way for us to expand our minds and think more inclusively. With any discussion there is potential to misunderstand someone since you are solely reading their words without context of tone, body language and facial expression even when the greatest care is made not to do so. I've been misunderstood here on occasion even when I was trying to be careful and still have unintentionally offended people. It happens.
The awesome thing is that lots of other discussions happen here on EX that are not about quitting but assist in the quitting process. Perhaps it is focused on helping someone navigate through the site and they get distracted by learning how to use it, they're involved in a creative word game or it's a controversial topic like this one(hopefully not triggering anyone to smoke/vape/chew).
Whatever the case I hope that people are giving each other the benefit of the doubt and not jumping to conclusions when words appear to get strong and maybe confusion. Asking for clarification and questions with an open mind can usually help to clear up that.
"Hey @_____ I read "@____ wrote: lorem ipsum text....." and interpreted it this way..... Did you mean it like that or am I misunderstanding? So much can be cleared up in online communities when this is asked. It allows the person to clarify so they're properly understood and helps them realize their words might have been taken in a different way than they intended.
The beautiful thing is that everyone's minds do interpret things in different ways. The image that Barbscloud shared may be interpreted by some as mocking other family signs and humorous, very literal in the way that it's just different gun sizes representing infant to an adult to others or it could be seen as threatening with other undertones and hidden meanings to other users. There are probably other interpretations and creative intents I haven't thought of. I don't know the designer of it to know for sure so we can't really know. But also a person who purchases it could take the designer's intent and apply their own meaning to it. It's really hard to say.
I hope everyone has an amazing Monday and opens their mind in this discussion to ensure that it is productive and that we don't go down a path of personal attacks and always maintain awareness of respect for differing opinions. Agreeing to disagree is sometimes the best path.
I apologize, profusely to anyone I may have offended! That was not my intent. I was attempting to pose a different perspective. Throw out food for thought, so to speak. The idea of “red flagging” is a slippery slope, and quite frankly should scare everyone. It does me.
It will come as no surprise to those of you who know me, that I strongly support the Constitution of the United States of America, including the second amendment. Twelve score and Five years ago our ancestors flung powder and shot in the name of freedom from a tyrannical government. Such points as we won created The United States of America. A free country! The founding fathers granted us the right to bear arms, not for hunting, or shooting those we don’t like. Our right to bear arms was granted so that we might defend ourselves against tyrannical government. Since at this point both of our political parties are accusing the other of tyranny, I would suggest it is not a good time to be giving up our weapons. In fact we should probably be holding weapons of equal strength to any military that may come for us. Any military!
Once again I apologize to anyone I have offended but my love of my country is stronger than my fear of stepping on toes!
Given these conflicting positions, the rigorous evaluation of the impact of the Australian NFA by Gilmour et al. (p. 1511) is an important addition to the literature. Their analysis confirmed that there were significant declines in firearm homicides and suicides following the passage of the NFA; however, it also showed that after preexisting declines in firearm death rates and the changes in nonfirearm mortality rates that occurred subsequent to the passage of the agreement were taken into account, there was no statistically observable additional impact of the NFA. The data show a clear pattern of declining firearm homicide and suicide rates, but those declines started in the late 1980s. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6187769/ )
I love debate.......it is interesting, stimulating and expands the mind. I can always agree to disagree......I take no offense when opinions differ from mine. Without interesting discussions......we would all post flowers, doves and well wishes........pretty dull to my way of thinking. I value each and everyone's opinion. THANK YOU for sharing it.
Although I do not agree with what you said, I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Before I throw in my two cents, It deeply concerns me that one of our brothers feels compelled to apologize on this blog for stating his opinion. He did not personally attack anyone. He merely stated a different opinion. If we cannot be mature enough to listen to the opinions of others without crying foul when they state an opinion we don’t agree with then we shouldn’t be posting blogs like this in the first place. The very nature of this blog was ripe for debate. No one on this site should be censored for stating a non personal opinion about something simply because it does not jive with the opinions of others.
As for the topic at hand....
1. The sign is in poor taste. I don’t condone it.
2. Again, I do not condone it. That said twice now, I would not be terribly offended if the sign was on a car parked next to me at one of the gas stations where gang members are pulling people out of cars and beating them to within an inch of their lives in public, on camera, in broad daylight.
3. I don’t trust the politicized, polarized government to formulate a well reasoned objective set of parameters for enhanced background checks or red flags. Ever known someone who used an antidepressant at one time or another? Who is to say they would ever be allowed to possess a firearm? Should a mother who began taking antidepressants while grieving the death of her child be prohibited from owning a firearm to protect her household during a home invasion? Want to deter people from getting help or taking antidepressants when they need them- this will do the trick.
4. I believe in the slippery slope argument because the government has failed to act otherwise. Ever taken a stroll down the aisle in the library displaying the Code of Federal Regulations? Give an inch and they will take a mile. We must be very careful about what we wish for. Today they will say restrict X but that opens the door to ban Y.
5. Many political puppets, journalists, and anti-gun activists are not well educated about firearms. The definition they craft to ban certain weapons could easily encompass more than was represented or perhaps even intended. Once a constitutional right is eroded it is eroded. Not endorsing a ban on any further regulations here. Rather, expressing a note of caution to tread carefully and be certain those who are entrusted with your rights know about that which they speak.
6. Automatic weapons and assault weapons are different things. Quite often those terms are used interchangeably or in the wrong context. Be sure you know of that which you speak, be certain you know what you are asking for, and be sure those you are asking know as well.
7. With respect to bump stocks. Interestingly, bump stocks were approved twice by the Obama Administration ATF at a time when Obama appointees were in charge of the Department of Justice. President Trump signed an Executive Order to ban them.
8. Let’s try “something.” The Trump administration did. And was met with hateful rhetoric that met Webster’s definition of hypocrisy to the letter. Sample headline: “Trump to Announce Bump-Stock Ban, a Largely Meaningless Gesture.”
9. I am going to reiterate that I am not opposed to all restrictions. I do fear that the present state of the union and certain current congressional representatives do not have the best interest of the country in mind and lack the intellect, self discipline, integrity and honesty to work on any meaningful legislation. And anything that could pass will still be criticized for the sake of criticism.
10. On a personal note, I was trained about guns and gun safety from an early age. During college I lived in an apartment complex that was being terrorized by a serial rapist who was becoming more violent with every incident. My father drove 2.5 hours from my home city to take me to the shooting range to practice with his revolver I had been trained with before. He left it with me. Two nights later, the rapist tried aggressively to break into my apartment. I pulled my weapon and screamed at him through the front door. I guarantee the click of the hammer, in conjunction with my tone and choice of words advising him I had a weapon pointed straight at him saved me from unspeakable harm that night. I am not against background checks. But I am concerned about the inefficient government running that show (seen the efficiency of the post office?) and furthermore exactly what in someone’s background they would say should prevent ownership. Every circumstance is different. Even Beto has a criminal history. Would he be allowed to own a gun under an enhanced government background check we have yet to formulate and consider?
11. The bad guys will always have guns of every kind. Let’s be careful not to over-restrict our own rights to protect ourselves from them. A true story: a church shooting in progress was stopped by a former National Rifle Association instructor who lives next door to the church in Sutherland Spring, Texas. Upon hearing gunfire inside the church, Stephen Willeford grabbed his AR-15-style rifle and went over to investigate. Confronting the shooter, Devin Kelley, Willeford shot him in the leg and torso before Kelley dropped his weapon and fled the scene in his SUV. As horrific as Kelley’s rampage was, it could have been much worse if it wasn’t for Stephen Willeford.
12. Ditto Tommy Piver on the basic purpose for the Second Amendment. I’m sure at one time our founding fathers thought they could trust their government too.
That's a FREEDOM of SPEECH quote my friend (Voltaire---French---not even American)......so defend me with speech please.....it is the only "weapon" whose freedom I want.
I totally agree Barb!!! As I said...posting flowers, doves and hearts is not to my liking. I thought everyone behaved in a very civil manner throughout this discussion. Glad we had it
Stacie---good to see you. Thanks for sharing your opinion in this great discussion.
I don't think Tommy felt he "needed" to apologize. No one was attacking him. Everyone was sharing opinions. Mine was certainly one of the strongest comments to his post, it was in opposition and it was my opinion. Tommy and I have still been speaking to each other all day today and neither of us felt compelled to apologize to the other. Saying....."I apologize if....................." is Tommy's writing style. I don't think he really felt attacked. And, if I am interpreting that incorrectly, Tommy pir8fan will let me know.
All in all I thought it was a very civilized back and forth.
